A conversation with Karen Mirza and Brad Butler, who are the founders of the art space no.w.here in the UK, conducted by Andrew Vallance. The interview was organized in 2015, which was no.where's 10th anniversary. Along with the discussion of Karen and Brad's works Museum of Non Participation and Deep State, the interview mainly focuses on revealing their collaboration on their own artwork, their dedication to no.w.here gallery, the problem of the hierarchical art institution, and the possibilities for the future of no.w.here.